Stats:
With Paypal for 3.5 years, almost a charter member
Over 5400 Transactions
No hint of fraud
Great Customer
Hello,
Because so many of you ask/asked why we do not carry, or quit, taking Paypal we decided to put up a webpage. We would still like to take Paypal, but their recent rule changes have made it incompatible with some of the items that we sold for years on Paypal and continue to sell on Ebay (Paypal's parent company, which is strange). Also, the way we were treated really ended up being what pushed us over the edge. Life will go on.
Below is some of the actual email communication between Paypal and us. Once you read it, and you don't have to go too far, you'll understand why we exited Paypal. It was a mildly tough decision to make as, anticipated, it has affected our online business by 50% and more as, like many sellers do/did, we made a big investment by getting involved with Paypal to handle some of our revenue streams. We have been taking our time in deciding on a regular credit card company to go through. We may have one by the time you read this. We did finally, after four months, sign on for REGULAR credit card ability online.
On July 25th, 2003 Paypal limited our account. (BUT, literally 18 minutes (YES, EIGHTEEN MINUTES!!) before that we were one of their best customers as they offered us SPECIAL TREATMENT!!!....Amazing, but TRUE!! Read This: PaypalLikesUs!!) They allowed people to put money into our account (we shipped out the items), but wouldn't allow us to take any money out until they had our updated User Information (we had moved a year earlier and had multiple addresses still in the system and our business name was on the account, which is how we signed up 3.5 years ago. I suppose Red Flags went up during a routine search?). That was the first slap in the face. Then, after a good chunk of change had built up into our account (two weeks as we thought that this would blow over), they switched gears and totally locked up our account (no money in or out) because of violations of their new user agreement.
As we all know online "user agreements" rarely get read and even if they do get read are even more rarely understood. In my 8 years on the internet I've only met ONE person who claimed to have read and understood a user agreement. It was an Ebay support person who claimed he really understood all aspects of Ebay's user agreement. What's that story of swampland in Florida? When Ebay changes their user agreement they at least give a courtesy email or call, (Note: PaypalLikesUs!!), if you happen to be violating their updated agreement. 100 lawyers will interpret the same user agreements in different ways. We are not lawyers. Paypal radically changed their user agreement which bans all sorts of new things which we found out the hard way.
At first we thought it was just some out of control customer support rep putting the screws on us because he's got that proverbially power trip thing, but after a few emails it became clear that it was a negative corporate culture that had taken Paypal over. It was form letters that featured "we are right" "you are wrong" talk from Paypal. References to our stellar record over 3.5 were persona non grata to them. I guess they have too much business and we didn't matter.
If PayPal treats us this way now, then we can all imagine how they would treat us if a customer mistakenly paid for "pepper spray" with Paypal, a newly banned item on Paypal. Paypal even was at a point that they decided to hold our money for six months because we missed taking ONE Paypal icon off our site (Yes, that is all it was about....really?). They wanted all references to Paypal gone as long as we sold the new things banned by Paypal. We had to go into a beg mode in our emails with Paypal so that they would release our money. After about a month they released our money and we promptly closed our account. That is something which a customer shouldn't have to go through. We do not wish to tap-dance again with another poorly trained Paypal "customer care" team. It's a fact in life that if you treat your customers bad enough, especially one of your first ones, they will leave. We left.
CJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Thu, 07 Aug 2003 152500 -0700
To "customercare@paypal.com" <customercare@paypal.com>
From paypal <paypal@sharpchoice.com>
Subject Fwd Re cd PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Violation (KMM33297340V49562L0KM)
Hello,
This whole thing has turned surreal. We are Great customers, fantastic record, then out of the blue my account is limited, led to believe that it just needed updated user info. Almost two weeks after tremendous stress with back and forth emails and faxes I then finally find out yesterday that the real reason is because of things in the new legalese paypal user agreement. I would have hoped for a courteous email, like the one yesterday, to a fine customer that there is a problem about items that we've sold occasionally (probably less than 1% of sales) over the last 3.5 years on paypal. Then when I think I've followed directions on yesterday's email from paypal I get an email from a customer telling me that paypal won't accept his payment. I go onto paypal and my account is closed and the reason is a review of my website which stated that I violated section 11. My website was granted clearance by Ebay 3 years ago and has stayed the same since. An ebay support person even claimed to have spent 1.5 hours micro analyzing it. I just got off the phone with "Deb" at paypal and this process has gone up a notch. In her log she said that whoever checked the website found one violation. Then she added that we cannot sell pepper sprays and stun guns, items OK on Ebay. Well, now I'm really confused so I'm going to keep things simple and ban paypal from our site because I cannot mentally handle another violation that comes up as the site is designed for ebay compliance which took a lot of time to achieve. We sell over 400 items so I hope that all the references to paypal are gone. I had my webmaster put a big note right on top of the website. I would assume that paypal would at least allow the same items as ebay, but I now find out that is not the case anymore. Please review my site www.sharpchoice.com so that I can have my account reinstated. Please help me out on what else there is to be done.
Thanks,
Yvonne.
Date Wed, 06 Aug 2003 104740 -0700
To "customercare@paypal.com" <customercare@paypal.com>
From paypal <paypal@sharpchoice.com>
Subject Re cd PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Violation (KMM33297340V49562L0KM)
Hello,
OK, that's been done. I do understand the Acceptable Use Policy now, and that I understand that additional violations will result in the permanent
limitation of my PayPal account.
Thanks,
Yvonne
At 1146 AM 8/6/2003 -0500, you wrote
Dear Yvonne Cortina,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We regret to inform you that your PayPal account has been limited for
the following reason
Engaging in activity expressly prohibited under the Acceptable Use Policy,
specifically, the sale of lock picking devices, knives, marijuana leaf
merchandise and screens. The URLs listed below detail the policies related
to these items
This note was not in the email communications: (The lock picking equipment is a newly banned Paypal item. Knives is a newly banned item, the marijuana leaf merchandise is a necklace and keychain? Knives, and Screens are sold on Paypal's parent company, Ebay's, own site. My opinion is that this whole incident was poorly handled by some poorly trained Paypal management type.)
http//www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&e
d=lockpick
http//www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&e
d=weapons
http//www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&e
d=drugs_paraph
In order to reinstate your account, please remove PayPal as a payment
option for this product, and reply to this email with the statement that
you have read and understand the Acceptable Use Policy, and that you
understand that additional violations will result in the permanent
limitation of your PayPal account. Please note that disagreement with the
Acceptable Use Policy is not an appeal.
Please understand that enforcement of our policies is not reflective of
seller status or volume of sales. This action has been taken only after
careful consideration of the severity of the violation, or your account's
history of previous offenses for this violation.
This note was not in the email communications: (To put this as out in the open as possible: WE HAD ZERO PREVIOUS OFFENSES OR VIOLATIONS THAT PAYPAL REPORTED TO US AS COMMITTING PRIOR TO THIS INCIDENT)
We have reviewed each
offense to verify that the correct action was taken by PayPal at the time.
During this limitation, please review the Acceptable Use Policy, available
at
http//www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside
We hope that you will come away from the limitation with a better
understanding of our policies, and look forward to helping you succeed with
your future post-limitation sales.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
PayPal Customer Service
PayPal, an eBay Company
Original Message Follows
------------------------
Hello Jennifer,
I do not know, who handles what at PayPal, but since you have kindly
emailed
me, I'll plead with you.
My account has been locked up for almost 2 weeks. I've faxed all the info
required to update my account and that was the only thing that has been
requested of me. I've been a great customer for 3.5 years (practically a
charter member of PayPal), with an outstanding record, and over 5000
transactions!
The only thing I've received as to why I'm being treated this way is
something about "in the user agreement", which isn't much help at all. If I
was a lawyer, maybe I would have a clue. But I'm not, so please tell me
what
this is all about?
This long delay is effecting my financial and family situation greatly, and
I need access to my money.
Any assistance that you can provide me to clear this matter up would be
sincerely appreciated.
Thank you,
Yvonne
At 0353 PM 8/4/2003 -0500, you wrote
>Dear Yvonne Cortina,
>
>Thank you for contacting PayPal. We apologize for the delay in
>responding to your service request.
>
>I regret to inform you that while your account is in a limited access
>state, you will not be able to remove any pertinent account
>information. Once the limitation has bene lifted, you can then remove
>the information in question.
>
>If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
>again.
>
>Sincerely,
>Jennifer
>Protection Services Department
>PayPal, an eBay Company
>
>Original Message Follows
>------------------------
>Hello Bob,
>
>I am trying to remove my financial information but there is no button to
>remove the data that I can find.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Yvonne
>
>At 0421 PM 8/2/2003 -0500, you wrote
> >Dear Yvonne Cortina,
> >
> >Thank you for contacting PayPal.
> >
> >We have received the request to correct your name. Your name has been
> >changed on your PayPal Account as you requested.
> >
> >To update the name in your PayPal Account, it will be necessary for you
to
> >remove your financial information and then add it to your PayPal Account
> >again.
> >
> >If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Bob
> >PayPal Account Review Department
> >PayPal, an eBay Company